An interview with Cardinal Tobin about Pope Francis and the road ahead
As Catholics around the world mourn the death of Pope Francis, the College of Cardinals prepares for one of the Church’s most sacred responsibilities: electing his successor. Jersey Catholic spoke with Cardinal Joseph W. Tobin, C.Ss.R., Archbishop of Newark, about Pope Francis’s legacy, the atmosphere in Rome, and his hopes for the Church and its people.
How would you describe the legacy Pope Francis leaves behind, especially as someone who served closely with him?
Cardinal Tobin: “Pope Francis began and ended his pontificate with a clear preference to be close to people. When you’re leading more than a billion people, that may not sound possible, but over the last week people from all over the world were talking about Francis as if they knew him personally. That was one gift he had, and within that gift was a clear preference for people who otherwise would be forgotten.
I was always fascinated by his first trip — to Lampedusa, an island that was a refuge for immigrants and also a graveyard for so many of them. It’s a forgotten island in the Mediterranean, but those people counted for him. That set a theme that would run through his whole pontificate.”
Is there a personal encounter or message from Pope Francis that has especially shaped your ministry as Archbishop of Newark?
Cardinal Tobin: “There have been a number of them. I like to think Francis has been a teacher of mine in a subject I thought I’d never study — how to be a bishop. I recall in 2013, his first summer as pope, I came to Rome to receive the pallium (a collar that is worn by metropolitan archbishops). He came up to me before the Mass, gave me a hug and said, ‘I’ve been praying for you.’ When he put the pallium on my shoulders, the whole service had been in Italian, but he switched to Spanish and said, ‘May the Cross bear good fruit.’ That’s not part of the ritual — but he said that to me. I thought, ‘He knew what he was talking about.’ Even the personal crosses we all carry can be a source of grace and new life. I accepted the pallium with that spirit. Of the many experiences, that was a particularly warm one for me.”
As you prepare for the conclave, how are you personally approaching this time of prayer, reflection, and responsibility?
Cardinal Tobin: “I pray to the Holy Spirit, and I pray for openness. I’ve not said anything yet in any of the meetings of the College of Cardinals. But I’ve listened. I’m listening and thinking, ‘What’s God saying in all this?’ I probably will say something in the days to come — not a long speech, but touch on the questions we’re asking in Newark: Where are we as a worldwide Church? Where is the Spirit calling us to be? And how do we get there together?”
What is the emotional and spiritual atmosphere among the cardinals during this period of mourning and discernment?
Cardinal Tobin: “For some of the cardinals whom I know better, there’s a real sense of grief. We talk about how we’re someplace in Rome or in a meeting and we just really miss him. When we pray the Eucharistic Prayer and we no longer mention the Pope — there is none. That’s a daily reminder. So, there is grief. There is also hope. And urgency. We realize the very precarious circumstance of the world today.
Francis talked about how the third world war has already begun in pieces. It’s not yet a worldwide conflagration, but that could happen. He was very concerned about the use of nuclear weapons in Ukraine, about climate change, ecological damage, and how these drive migration. These are real problems that don’t always get the attention he gave them.”
What are your thoughts on the impact of the Pope’s encyclicals and apostolic exhortations?
Cardinal Tobin: “The interesting thing about Laudato Si’ is that in the preface, Pope Francis is writing not only to the Church, but to all people of good will. I remember going to an inter-religious seminar where Jewish and Muslim participants strongly identified with the message — it’s about our common home.
What’s become clear to me, especially because of the Pope’s emphasis on synodality, is that we need a Church that is listening and walking together. That sort of Church can then approach these great themes — Laudato Si’, Fratelli Tutti, and The Joy of the Gospel — more effectively. The challenge is a Church that’s prepared to do it together.
Interestingly, someone pointed out how these ‘social encyclicals’ were bracketed by rich spiritual reflections, like Dilexit Nos on the Sacred Heart and what expression of Christ’s love that means for us, what it reveals about Jesus, and how Jesus opens his sacred heart to us, literally, on the Cross. It reveals something essential about God — not a distant judge, but the One who so loved the world that He sent His only Son, whose heart remains open to all of us.”
In light of your experience with the faithful in New Jersey, what hopes or concerns do you hear most often from Catholics about the Church’s future?
Cardinal Tobin: “People identify with a particular church or parish, and there’s a feeling that maybe the ground is moving from under their feet. They worry about churches or schools closing and everything is in flux. But when you look at the history of the Catholic Church in this country, the ground has been moving ever since we arrived here.
I also hear a hunger. In 2017, when I visited all the deaneries, people said, ‘We want to grow as adult Christians and not rely on what we learned in grade school.’ That’s a wonderful desire. If we don’t make that a priority and if the church doesn’t offer opportunities for growth, we’ll have the feeling that it’s shrinking or atrophying. We’re trying to reinforce that through pastoral planning. One focus is faith formation for life. Our catechesis office is called ‘Lifelong Faith Formation,’ which I love, and our team is making real progress.”
What words of encouragement or guidance would you offer to the faithful in our Archdiocese during this time of uncertainty and prayer?
Cardinal Tobin: “A starting point is always to embrace the faithfulness of God. The death and resurrection of Jesus reminds us of that. Even on the Cross, when he cried out, ‘Why have you abandoned me?’ — he wasn’t pretending. But that wasn’t the last word. The last word was, ‘Into Your hands I commend my spirit.’
In moments of insecurity — not just with the passing of a great leader, but economic, social, or political insecurity — we say: ‘God is faithful.’ That exchange we often hear in churches, ‘God is good, all the time,’ and ‘All the time, God is good’—that’s what I hope people will embrace.
And then, to see their fellow disciples with new eyes — not the caricatures proposed by politicians or comedians. But see who they are because that’s how they’re loved by God.
This is all happening in the Jubilee Year of Hope. There’s a challenge Peter gives to an early Christian community in his letter: Be ready to give a reason for the hope that’s in your heart. So, let’s ask: Why do we have hope? If we’re wondering what’s the real hope, look at the crucifix because it’s God — arms nailed open for all eternity to welcome us.”
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In a final reflection, Cardinal Tobin recalled a moment of peace after returning from a trip to Rome in 2016: “I thought, ‘I’m going home. I don’t want to be anywhere else.’” He believes Pope Francis felt the same about Buenos Aires.
When asked in 2005 if he was disappointed not to be elected pope, then-Cardinal Bergoglio answered, “Absolutely not. I would die without my people,” consistent with his unwavering dedication to the Church and its people.
Cardinal Tobin concluded, “That’s how I feel about the people I serve — and who I’m looking forward to seeing once we complete the conclave.”
Featured image: Cardinal Joseph W. Tobin, Archbishop of Newark, speaks with Maria Margiotta, Executive Director of the Office of Communications of the Archdiocese of Newark ahead of the papal conclave following the passing of Pope Francis. (Archdiocese of Newark file photo)
For more about the legacy of Pope Francis and to follow live coverage of papal events, visit the Archdiocese of Newark’s In Memoriam page.
